Author Topic: (updated) Which software/functionality for the GNU/Linux PowerPC Notebook?  (Read 3601 times)

Carlos

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I would like to throw a few more application into the pool:

FTP Client
Filezilla

Games
FreeCiv
LinCity
SCID (Chess)

Video-Tool
Handbrake

RSS
RssOwl

Privacy
VeraCrypt
JAP
KeePass(X)

PDF
Okular

Image viewer
digiKam

Mail
Evolution

Calendar, contacts
Kontact

Banking
GNU cash

Disk utility
GParted

IRC
HexaChat

Newsreader
Pan

Music
Amarok

Backup
Back in time

Application launcher
Launchy

As built-in applications, we need the right ones for "Jo average" users as well.

Carlos

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My proposal (maybe some applications are too specific) for built-in applications are:

Internet:
Filezilla (https://filezilla-project.org)
Google Chronium (https://www.chromium.org)
ownCloud (https://owncloud.com/)
Kontact (https://userbase.kde.org/Kontact)
Telegram (https://desktop.telegram.org)
RssOwl (http://www.rssowl.org)
SABnzbd (http://sabnzbd.org)
HexChat (https://hexchat.github.io)
Evolution (https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution)
Remmina (http://www.remmina.org/)

Privacy / security:
KeePassX (https://www.keepassx.org)
VeraCrypt (https://veracrypt.codeplex.com)
JAP (https://anon.inf.tu-dresden.de/index_en.html)
GnuPG (https://www.gnupg.org/)
Douane (http://douaneapp.com)

Office:
Tesseract (https://github.com/tesseract-ocr/tesseract)
gImageReader Tesseract Frontend (https://sourceforge.net/projects/gimagereader/)
Simple Scan (https://launchpad.net/simple-scan)
LibreOffice (https://www.libreoffice.org)
GnuCash (https://www.gnucash.org/index.phtml?lang=en_US)
Scribus (https://www.scribus.net)
Okular (https://okular.kde.org)
Task Coach (http://www.taskcoach.org/)
GIMP (http://www.gimp.org)
Inkscape (https://inkscape.org/)
TextRoom (https://code.google.com/archive/p/textroom/)
LaTeX (http://www.latex-project.org)
ProjectLibre (http://www.projectlibre.org)
Zim (http://www.zim-wiki.org)

Utilities:
Clam AntiVirus (https://www.clamav.net)
Double Commander (http://doublecmd.sourceforge.net)
7-ZIP (http://7-zip.org)
GParted (http://gparted.org/)
Back in time (http://backintime.le-web.org)
Launchy (http://www.launchy.net)
KFritz (http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/KFritz?content=120190) or even better maybe:
Roger Router (http://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Roger_Router)
Conky (https://github.com/brndnmtthws/conky)
ntopng (http://www.ntop.org/products/traffic-analysis/ntop/)
GCstar (http://www.gcstar.org/)
Shutter (http://shutter-project.org)
CopyQ (http://hluk.github.io/CopyQ/)
youtube-dl (http://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/)
Functy (http://functy.sourceforge.net)
TIPP10 (https://www.tipp10.com/en/)

Multimedia:
ImageMagick (http://www.imagemagick.org/)
digiKam (https://www.digikam.org)
HandBrake (https://handbrake.fr)
Amarok (https://amarok.kde.org/)
VLC (http://www.videolan.org)
avidemux (http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/)

Programing:
Eclipse (https://eclipse.org)
Atom (https://atom.io)
Lime Text (http://limetext.org)
Etherpad (collaborative editing) (http://etherpad.org/)
GNU Compiler Collection (https://gcc.gnu.org)
LLVM (http://llvm.org)
Clang (http://clang.llvm.org)
Vulkan (https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/)
OpenJDK (http://openjdk.java.net/projects/ppc-aix-port/)

Games:
SCID (http://scid.sourceforge.net)

Bold application are (out of the box) crossplatform. Minimum 3 out of 4 OSes are supported: MacOS X, Windows, Linux, BSD
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 08:52:02 PM by Carlos »

Carlos

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Regarding to Arduino, maybe this is an alternative:

Arduino Eclipse plugin (http://eclipse.baeyens.it)

Carlos

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Re: Which software/functionality for the GNU/Linux PowerPC Notebook?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2016, 07:55:24 PM »
I would definitely go for eb. IMO the loss of AltiVec is a big one and it's waste of money also. All PowerPC OSs run in eb.
Of course, el is the way to go, but now it's too early.

Another advantage is: Maybe larger hardware support. Debian could also be used on older PowerPC machines. Reaching more hardware means reaching more people, means reaching more potential developers/ programers.

Cons are:

- larger hardware support
- be is not the future
- applications are harder to port
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 09:30:24 PM by Carlos »

Carlos

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I have installed Debian testing (stretch) on my iMac G5.
I had problems with the official netinst alpha 5 CD image (issues with keyboard), but It finally worked with the 20160418_07:08 snapshot.
chroot was not a good solution - for GUI applications - some worked, but firefox didn't for example.
Maybe I was doing something wrong...
...

Thanks,
Fadi.

Hello Fadi,

I have a x86 Mac mini, an Apple Cube and an Apple Powerbook Pismo. Wich one would be the best computer for Debian to test the applications?

Til now, I only have experience with MacOS X and Windows *shame*
And a few 68K Macs  8)

alfredone

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Graphics:
Blender (https://www.blender.org/)

Programming:
Qt5 (https://www.qt.io/)

fospot-ppc

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Hello Fadi,

I have a x86 Mac mini, an Apple Cube and an Apple Powerbook Pismo. Wich one would be the best computer for Debian to test the applications?

Til now, I only have experience with MacOS X and Windows *shame*
And a few 68K Macs  8)

Hi Carlos,

You could use Debian on all of your machines  ;D

I'm afraid the x86 Mac mini won't do for testing powerpc packages...
The m68k either.
The Powerbook Pismo is a G3 machine, so no AltiVec.

The Cube is a G4 (with AltiVec) 32-bit machine, but should be OK for the tests.
BTW, this was my dream machine for years...
A word of advice: use ext3 for the partition containing /boot.
It looks like yaboot has issues with ext4.

I'll update the main post with the new software suggestions this evening.
NOTE: we are not trying to do a new "distro" - we're just listing "needed" software to test. Other software would still be available for installation.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 08:15:32 AM by fospot-ppc »

Carlos

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Hi Fadi,

yes. The Cube was a great computer or still is :-)
A piece of art ;-)

Okay, I first have to find a place and then plug it on.

Shiunbird

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Hi team,

My two cents in the whole Altivec debate:

I use Debian Wheezy very often (almost daily) in my two machines:
I have a G5 Quad and an IntelliStation 285.
One has the PPC970 with Altivec and the other one has the POWER5 without Altivec.
Both machines have 8GB of DDR2 ECC RAM.
I disabled two of the G5s cores for my tests.

I expected the IntelliStation to win most benchmarks. IBM's benchmarks show it as a faster system overall. The PPC970 desperately begs for more cache, and the IntelliStation has generous 32MB of cache. But the actual numbers are surprising.

I compiled VLC without Altivec and yes, it runs as well as the G5, but the IntelliStation uses far more CPU time to play the same videos.
The G5 humiliates the IntelliStation on Blender benchmarks.

I'm so puzzled by the results that I ordered from eBay a graphics card that is supported by Linux (the IBM GXT135p works on framebuffer only in Linux), and I will run the tests again.

But my experience so far totally points on the direction of Altivec.

On the rest of the software, my computing experience is COMPLETE. Audio editors work, GIMP works, Blender works, I can totally live on my G5 only. But many packages are not actively maintained anymore and are several versions behind. Most of us are not coders, so there would be a lot of work to catch up.

Shiunbird

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One more thing:

We could also try to figure out what are IBM's and OpenPOWER's plans for the POWER line in terms of adding SIMD-Altivec-like functionality to the future releases of the POWER processor, so help us decide between endianness and Altivec.

I'm available to test, compare and benchmark anything, and I'm going to keep a more active eye on the forums from now on.
Please shoot me a message if you need me to test anything. I will go through the list of software that is already here and report as I go.

Saulo
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 11:02:09 AM by Shiunbird »

Shiunbird

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The Cube is a G4 (with AltiVec) 32-bit machine, but should be OK for the tests.
BTW, this was my dream machine for years...
A word of advice: use ext3 for the partition containing /boot.
It looks like yaboot has issues with ext4.

My G5 Quad boots fine with ext4, but not my IntelliStation, so I think it could be something related to the firmware.
I'm planning to upgrade the firmware of my IntelliStation and try again. Took me 6 bloody and painful months to manage to boot it in Linux.

Carlos

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One more thing:

We could also try to figure out what are IBM's and OpenPOWER's plans for the POWER line in terms of adding SIMD-Altivec-like functionality to the future releases of the POWER processor, so help us decide between endianness and Altivec.

IBMs direction is little endian and POWER6 and all following CPU designs do have a SIMD unit.
More important, do IBM have interest in building a stripped down version of POWER CPUs anymore?
Because, from my perspective NXP won't do any further development regarding to POWER ISA.
If the QorIQ CPUs the last of it's kind, we should go Debian eb, twice.

Quote
I'm available to test, compare and benchmark anything, and I'm going to keep a more active eye on the forums from now on.
Please shoot me a message if you need me to test anything. I will go through the list of software that is already here and report as I go.

Saulo

Maybe you could also test the applications both on the G5. With and without AltiVec.
But I really have no clue how good these applications are optimized.
I only know the SETI client in 2005/ 2006 was highly optimized. At that date, the G5 slaughtered almost anything 8-)

Casper

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If IBM goes little endian, we might have to follow suit. I assume our project will not just make one laptop. If we follow up with a newer design and processor later, and a large chunk of previous software needs to be reconsidered, re-written, that might not go down well with software developers.

Then of course, one can pose the question: if NXP stops making PowerPC processors (they seem to be sweeping PowerPC under the rug for ARM at the moment), could we hypothetically cram a full POWER9 chip in a laptop (that would supposedly be a quad-core)?

Are we looking into OpenPower? For future hardware and software support, such a conglomerate of companies around the architecture could come in handy for finding solutions.


Shiunbird

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IBMs direction is little endian and POWER6 and all following CPU designs do have a SIMD unit.
More important, do IBM have interest in building a stripped down version of POWER CPUs anymore?
Because, from my perspective NXP won't do any further development regarding to POWER ISA.
If the QorIQ CPUs the last of it's kind, we should go Debian eb, twice.

They do have SIMD, but if it doesn't work in both endian modes, we are stuck (if I understand right).

Maybe you could also test the applications both on the G5. With and without AltiVec.
But I really have no clue how good these applications are optimized.
I only know the SETI client in 2005/ 2006 was highly optimized. At that date, the G5 slaughtered almost anything 8-)

What is the goal of the tests? Should I create a table and benchmark applications with and without Altivec for us to know where to focus our efforts?

Carlos

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If the decision isn't done to go little endian or big endian, the goal is to look, if AltiVec has a big influence in performance.
AltiVec has of course. But only if well optimized. It would be interesting, how good the compiler results are.

They do have SIMD, but if it doesn't work in both endian modes, we are stuck (if I understand right).

Yes, the QorIQ T2 and T4 do have AltiVec, but only working in big endian only.

If IBM goes little endian, we might have to follow suit. I assume our project will not just make one laptop. If we follow up with a newer design and processor later, and a large chunk of previous software needs to be reconsidered, re-written, that might not go down well with software developers.

It depends. Is there future PowerPC offerings that fit in a "desktop" computer or not. If our next project is a "workstation class" computer, then we should now go little endian :-)

Quote
Then of course, one can pose the question: if NXP stops making PowerPC processors (they seem to be sweeping PowerPC under the rug for ARM at the moment), could we hypothetically cram a full POWER9 chip in a laptop (that would supposedly be a quad-core)?

 ;D
Impossible. Besides the price, you need a lot more chips on the mainboard, too. Then the power rating are too high.

Quote
Are we looking into OpenPower? For future hardware and software support, such a conglomerate of companies around the architecture could come in handy for finding solutions.

Good question  ;)
I have asked this, too. I don't know yet, if Roberto has plans to do this.

More important. We first have to have a running crowdfunding campaign of the present project.
If this works well and we have generated a big buzz on this, then we have the spotlight to do more such projects. Maybe with different ISAs and or different devices and or different OSs. Intel outside, of course ;)

 

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